Fleetwood by Heartland

[Newt]

http://rvtravel.com/Breaking_RV_News_159/fleetwood-heartland415.shtml

[Donr827]

It sounds like to me that all Heartland is doing is putting Fleetwood names on their trailers.  I have never been impressed with Fleetwood trailers.  Their  quality was never up their with HH,
Don

["Highlander"]

This should finish Fleetwood the rest of the way off.... Dead and gone.... and soon forgotten....
Heartland trailers leave alot to be desired from what I have saw... Never will buy one that's for sure.....

[Mallo]

I don't know for what they are and for the price points Heartland isn't a terrible option.  Unlike Nu Wa Heartland does try to attract the entry level buyer.

Mallo

[JimB]

If I'm reading that article correctly, all Heartland bought was the trademarked names of the towables.  I didn't see anything in there about manufacturing assets, so it is likely just the names.  And since Fleetwood still exists with their motorhome line, I would assume we won't see any mention of "Fleetwood" on the Heartland models - just the Prowler, Pioneer, and Wilderness names.  If Fleetwood (or more likely: their creditors) could get anything for the defunct towable line, it is better than nothing.

Not much of an asset from my thinking.

Regarding entry level pricing: when we were still working, we delivered a high end product.  When potential clients would try to justify the price difference, I would ask them: "What is the better deal - something less expensive that you aren't happy with, or something that may cost a bit more that truly gives you satisfaction?"

A good value is when you feel you got your money's worth.  Just saying.

Best wishes,
Jim B.

[mmitc100]

Heartland just bought the Trademark names.  Just as Coachman I think is using the Coleman name and Monaco for a while produced a unit with the Dodge name.   Short term it may help due to name recognition, but we all know it will eventually depend on product and service quality.  I suggest it's superficial rather than substance to buy someone else's name and think that will help ones success.   MIKE

[Hawk Holiday & Miss Muffin]

Just goes to show ya, they can't do anything for themselves. Slapping someone elses name on an inferior product isn't going to magicly make it a better unit. The RV fairies aren't going swoop down and sprinkle magic dust on these cheesy trailers and make them better.

Pardon my response, but it only proves an old addage. " you can polish it all day, but at the end of the day it's still a turd. Just a highly polished turd."

Darin

[Jeff Collingwood]

I think Mallo has a valid point.  If you are going to buy a trailer to vacation in 2 weeks a year, what are you going to buy?  I don't think you would be looking at the good trailers.  You would buy the cheap one knowing that it is a "settle for" trailer that is only for vacations.  You don't have to be all that happy with it.  But when you are retired or able to use a trailer a lot, then you are going to look for quality that makes you happy.   You just have to know your market.
...Jeff....

[HaroldG]

Yep, I agree with Jeff. That's what we did while we were working stiffs and just using the trailer for vacations and weekenders. That is until we hitched up with the Hitchhikers.
Harold

[HHDreamer]

Yep, I agree with Jeff. That's what we did while we were working stiffs and just using the trailer for vacations and weekenders. That is until we hitched up with the Hitchhikers.
Harold

Sorry guys, I learned the hard way that when I go cheap, I get burned...     All my power tools are Dewalt, Makita and Metabo!!!     I agree with JimB on this, at the time we bought ours, it only cost us about 3k more than a Bighorn and I knew I had a quality unit that I would be happy with...     If I had to do it again, I would go the same route, I have no regrets that we purchased a NuWa product and we are very happy with our decision...   

Wes

[JimB]

While the topic of this thread may have drifted a bit, I don't think that amount of usage necessarily means that someone will be willing to give up quality.  If a buyer is looking to get into a unit cheap, they will still be looking to get as much as they can for their dollar.  There are plenty of folks with NuWas who aren't retired or full-timing.  Our last couple RVs before retiring were American Coach.  Seems to me that the reason these lesser quality units (like Heartland) sell is because many RV buyers don't know what to look for or automatically assume that "they're all the same."  Kias sell just as well as Cadillacs.  There's room for more than one in the market, but the way to sell a better product (as long as the price is reasonable) is to educate the potential buyer; create the desire to have something better.  You aren't going to turn every shopper into a buyer, but if you have salespeople saying, "This one is just as good and less money," it will steer a lot of buyers.

Frankly (and to get back on topic), the Fleetwood towables just weren't that much of the market segment prior to their demise - I don't see what value Heartland received from that purchase, but maybe... (ready for this?)... the price was cheap. 

Just saying.

Best wishes,
Jim B.

[southpaws]

Fleetwood is all I knew about. I'm in central IL. 1 state away from the "Elkhart Boys" and that is all I ever knew about. Until I seen a HH or two on I-74 and wondered, what is a HitchHiker? Never heard of them. OK thanks to the computer age and curiosity I found this forum. There is one dealer in the northern part of the state and always did the local thing. And as JimB says "you have salespeople saying, "This one is just as good and less money," it will steer a lot of buyers." It did.

Thanks to "the dream" and the amigos putting the forum together it saved me from making another mistake. We love the HH II LS that we have and wouldn't have anything else. I'll be glad to pay for quality, hopefully down the road we'll be ready for an updated version. 

Craig
 

[mmitc100]

I have to add my opinion, because I believe the last two comments are so "on target".   Customers have in the past and still today risk "over valuing" the comments of sales people.  One of our biggest problems with dealers sales staff has always been their overheard comment that "this unit is nearly as good as a HitchHiker but is a lot less money".  Or that "we the dealer will take care of any of the problems you might have anyway".  It is about education; it is about the reality that significant differences will be experienced between different brands.  We all want to believe our sales person, because we need expertise and confirmation of the wisdom of our purchase decision.  It's a major leap of faith, that in actuality creates a lot of disappointment in the RV industry.  It's not easy being the messenger that products are different.   Or to have to defend why your particular product is worth more initial investment.  We have struggled with this for 35 years at NuWa; because people want to believe they can find more for less and because sales people will feed that search with less than accurate information.  RV salesmen are seldom factual information providers, but instead have to sell something to feed their families.  The tactics used to meet their goals do not necessarily result in the optimum experience for the buyer who "believed".  At NuWa we view ourselves more as consultants than sales people.  We don't view our job so much as "to close the sale" as we do to help you "close the sale yourself".  We provide the facts, our knowledge and the experiences of others, so our customer can make an educated decision.  That is the reason I believe that our 2010 customers are some of the most satisfied customers in the industry.  Whether we can get the message to enough potential customers and attract the volume of business we need to make this business model work is yet to be seen.  But it's obvious that I and my staff spend far more of our time educating and assisting than we do selling.  And there is a lot value in that to the buyer of our products, whether purchased from the factory or from one of our dealer partners.   As far as fulltimer versus weekender or vacation user, I believe our products are for both.  I don't boat a lot, but I have a quality boat, which has served me well for many years.  NuWa's increased focus on "higher end" products for serious RV'ers will reduce our sales to the weekender segment.  But we recognize the importance of this segment to our long term cause, thus as soon as we can I will begin the process of introducing a lesser expensive, slightly more basic, but high quality product.  That which made the HitchHiker II such a powerful product for many years.  It won't be easy, because building with quality materials is not inexpensive.  And it takes discipline to force designers and production people to not spend as much money on the lesser expensive price point.  What typically happens is that the lower price point becomes a great value, because it ends up being built with the same TLC as the higher end unit.   MIKE

[bobr]

we are weekenders and the reason for buying a hh is simply that it will not need to be replaced for the 10 years between its purchase and my retirement. we can upgrade at that time to the unit we keep for the rest of our rving days. i figure that 2 units that last 10 years each is a lot cheaper in the long run than 3 or 4 heartland types to get the same usage from. on top of that we will suffer less down time and maintenance issues by buying top quality. you never find yourself apologizing for buying quality.  bob r

[RJOL]

I'm always a little surprised when I hear of, or experience, a dealer or manufacturer that will sell you an inferior product, just to make the sale.  The only thing I can think of is that they are so concerned about making a sale that they don't care if you ever come back, or buy another product from that manufacturer.  Maybe the odds are in their favor and most people don't buy another RV.  All I can tell you is this... If I bought an RV and got burned by an inferior product, I'd never buy another one from that manufacturer, and most certainly would never set foot on that dealers lot again.... 

[mmitc100]

I'm sorry, but I fear your faith in the human nature of sales persons is too strong.  Something I have criticized the RV industry for 30 years is the "short term" planning that is rampant.  How can I make a sale "now"?   "How do I convince this customer to buy this unit "now", no matter whether my statements are accurate or not?"   "How do I build a cheaper unit than the other guy regardless of the negative consequences for the customer?"   Everything is planned around short term and no one anticipates the outcome of their actions.  Rather industry should ask,  "How do I identify and invest in reliable materials and designs, which will serve today's and tomorrow's customer well?"  "How do I through manufacturing reduce the cost of maintenance and frustration of ownership?"  How do I educate my sales staff that the desire for a sale should never result in a loss of credibility by making false statements.  The things we hear salesmen say to our customers with full awareness that the customer is later going to find out the truth continues to baffle us.  But also let's remember it's not fully the fault of industry.  Someone is embracing and supporting this line of thinking by focusing so intensely on price, that the message becomes "price is everything".  That's a risky message.  What occurs is that a customer, who is intensely focused on price, fantasizes that he can have quality for low cost, and the sales people simply feed this fantasy.  And the manufacturer gives the dealer's sales people the support information they need to feed the fantasy and pushes suppliers for ever lower material prices.   This isn't the case with all sales people and all products, but unfortunately I see very little long term planning in this industry as to how to better satisfy the true needs of the customer.  That is one of the things I respect about European RVs/Caravans.  They may be small, but they aren't inexpensive, because the components are quality and they will work and last.   MIKE

 

I'm always a little surprised when I hear of, or experience, a dealer or manufacturer that will sell you an inferior product, just to make the sale.  The only thing I can think of is that they are so concerned about making a sale that they don't care if you ever come back, or buy another product from that manufacturer.  Maybe the odds are in their favor and most people don't buy another RV.  All I can tell you is this... If I bought an RV and got burned by an inferior product, I'd never buy another one from that manufacturer, and most certainly would never set foot on that dealers lot again.... 

[dandg]

I don't know anything about the "new" Fleetwood rvs, but we had 4 Fleetwood Prowlers as we worked our way up to our first HH II.  We were happy with all of them--thought the quality was pretty good and put lots of miles on every one of them as we made trips from TX to Glacier, Yellowstone, Banff, CO, NM, AZ, ND, SD & LOTS of TX trips on every available school holiday and always a summer vacation.  When we retired we started looking for a trailer that we could "live" in for longer trips.  At that point in time Fleetwood's stock was not to our liking and that was when we started looking at the Carriage products, Sunnybrook and NuWa.  We went with the HH II and are now into our second one.  We've had some problems with our HH IIs just as we had some problems with our Prowlers and our one Mobile Scout.  DH has learned how to trouble-shoot and repair almost everything on our rvs.  Would love to have the income that would allow us to trade for a new model every 2 or 3 years, but that just isn't going to happen so you have to know how to fix things!
Just my two cents worth on the subject.
Gerry 

[Bill Teetz]

<Snip>
Would love to have the income that would allow us to trade for a new model every 2 or 3 years, but that just isn't going to happen so you have to know how to fix things!
Just my two cents worth on the subject.
Gerry 

Why would you want to?  Buy a quality product and keep it for years is my idea.  That is one reason we bought NuWa.

Bill

[Newt]

We're just about to get our NOS 04 SnowBird fixed up the way we want it.  If we won the Lotto, I wouldn't want to start work on another trailer getting it "our" way. 

Newt

[dandg]

Well, right now we're looking at the vinyl stuff on the ceiling of our HH II wrinkling at the seams or connection strips--whatever you call that.  I've seen on here somewhere that others are having the same problem.  We have several places now and I'm wondering how bad this is going to get.  I don't see anyway to fix it at this point.  Things like this get me thinking about wanting to trade again, but we can't.  I agree with you all--when you get one all fixed up just like you want it, trading is not the most appealing idea.
Gerry

[bobr]

mike,  it seems to me that an appreciation for quality and the expectation that it costs more than inferior products comes to us with the passage of time. in many cases a lot of time. given the "Graying on america" currently taking place it seems to me that the stars are starting to align in your favor. as more and more people get closer to retirement age and also experience their peak earning years they are going to be more interested in quality for their rvs than price. that certainly pertained to dw and i as well as a lot of others here and should also apply to thousands of others in the near future. your only problem as i see it is to educate a sufficient number of them before they make their purchase. it is very easy right now for people to spend their entire lives not knowing what a quality product nu-wa builds and that really needs to change somehow. our own experience suggests that it cannot be left to the various sales forces and there are far too few dealers to do it. the forum and those of us who are your ambassadors are helping i think but that is not the only answer. the one fault in your new strategy is that it even further reduces the size of your dealer network because few dealers recognize the value of what you are doing. we have a car dealer here in town who went to the one price sale idea and has become the high volume dealer in the whole area so it works but the manufacturers drive customers in to dealerships.  good luck in whatever you decide.  bob r

[walkerdog]

 We went from a Bighorn to a NUWA, There is no comparison between the two. The NUWA has better quality in so many ways, I don't have the time to list all the differences, we had several problems with our bighorn and we were hung out to dry, when we had an issue with our NUWA, the dealer and NUWA couldn't do enough. They surpassed our expectations,  We will always be a NUWA customer. walkerdog

[mmitc100]

Could I use your comments on the testimonial section of NuWa's website.   I would change the name Bighorn to "X brand" so as to not appear to be brand bashing.  But I do think your opinion and experience needs to be known by more customers who visit NuWa's website.   MIKE

We went from a Bighorn to a NUWA, There is no comparison between the two. The NUWA has better quality in so many ways, I don't have the time to list all the differences, we had several problems with our bighorn and we were hung out to dry, when we had an issue with our NUWA, the dealer and NUWA couldn't do enough. They surpassed our expectations,  We will always be a NUWA customer. walkerdog